FSU Football Roundtable: Discussing departures, Fuller and more
As we wait through another weekend off in anticipation of FSU's recently scheduled games against Duke and Wake Forest, the Warchant staff sat down for a roundtable discussion about the 2020 season.
We talked about the recent rash of departures and what they say about Mike Norvell's program, we discussed defensive coordinator Adam Fuller's future, how the FSU administration handled recent bad publicity surrounding game cancellations, and which young players might stand out in the final month.
This Roundtable features Warchant founder and administrator Gene Williams, managing editor Ira Schoffel, senior writer Corey Clark and director of digital media Aslan Hajivandi.
Q: What’s your take on all of the recent departures? Cause for concern? Or just what happens following a coaching transition and youth movement?
GENE: Player turnover is becoming more and more common in college football with the loosening of transfer rules. Also, players not fitting in with a new coaching staff shouldn’t be too surprising. That said, the level of attrition at FSU has been so great that it should raise a red flag.
What we don’t know is how much of the turnover has been necessary to "flip the roster." There were clearly a few players with attitude issues, and others that have under-performed. Norvell’s staff needs to weed out the players that aren’t buying in and make room for those willing to do so. Honestly, there have been very few surprises among the players who have left the program. So, I’m not going to put too much weight on the recent rash of opt-outs and departures.
COREY: The only "departure" that I thought was a real cause for concern was La'Damian Webb. But the way Norvell talked about him on Wednesday, it sounds like the running back plans to be back in 2021. Overall, I think this is the normal transition. I don't think any of the other departures were unexpected or worrisome.
Tamorrion Terry, Marvin Wilson and Asante Samuel were never coming back next season. Cory Durden was always up in the air. Jaiden Lars-Woodbey and Andrew Boselli, not to be rude, are not guys that will be all that missed on the field (both seem like great kids off of it, though) in 2021. So it is what it is. Players don't have to stay on campus for four or five years anymore if things aren't going well for them; it even happens to decent teams. So, in this unprecedented season, with a roster in transition anyway, I don't think it's the end of the world. Now, if it happens at this rate again next season? Well, then I'll probably have another answer.
ASLAN: More curious than concerned. The departures make sense at face value, although as Corey said, La’Damian Webb put a bit of a scare into me. And there’s no guarantee he’ll want to come back to Tallahassee after a month back home. I know his stats are quite similar to Jashaun Corbin’s, but I think we can all agree Webb provides a little something extra as a primary back. The only thing that concerns me about the departures is just the raw numbers. The 'Noles might be on a quasi-self-imposed probation if they limp into mid-December with only 50-something players since you’re capped at 25 signees.
IRA: Judging by the texts, calls and emails I'm getting from from curious friends and FSU fans, all of this upheaval clearly looks bad from the outside. The perception for some is that Mike Norvell and his staff are losing -- or have lost -- the team, and everybody is getting out of Dodge. But I honestly don't see it that way at all. A few of these guys had maturity issues and needed to move on, and some were clearly not a big part of the new staff's future plans. If you sit down and look at each situation individually, none of them raise any red flags to me about the coaching staff -- other than Webb. I do want to see how that plays out, since he was actually recruited here by this staff, and he shouldn't have any real complaints about playing time. But the rest of it is more reflective, to me, of how much of a mess this program was when Norvell got here, and how much heavy lifting needs to be done to clean it up.
Q: Who is the one player other than Asante Samuel FSU is really going to miss?
ASLAN: Man, that’s a good question. Nobody isn’t a very good answer, so I’ll try. Does Tamorrion Terry count? I know they beat North Carolina without him, but he was your lone game-breaking receiver, and they’re not in the mix for any recruits that fit the bill -- and I don’t know if one will surface in the transfer portal. Terry got banged up in Week 1 and still powered through for good outings vs. Jacksonville State and Notre Dame. He then had in-season surgery and rushed back, so it’s hard for me to really hammer the kid. Then again, Norvell has shown disgruntled kids a lot of compassion, and apparently he finally had enough in this case.
COREY: I've thought a lot about this question. I really don't have an answer. The 2018-2019 version of Marvin Wilson is really missed. Same for Tamorrion Terry. But we didn't see those guys this year. So, I'll say Webb. He was pretty dynamic when healthy and could've used some late-season reps heading into next season.
IRA: This is exactly why FSU fans shouldn't be panicking about the departures. None of these other guys were difference-makers -- at least not this season. When Terry went down, FSU went and beat North Carolina. When Wilson went down, the defensive line seemed to actually show more life. Does anyone really think the defense is going to be worse without Durden and Lars-Woodbey? Honestly, even if La'Damian Webb doesn't come back, I don't think that's going to have a major impact on anything. There are very few players -- if any -- on this roster that are irreplaceable. Perhaps some of them will play better at their future homes, but I just don't think you can spend a lot of time worrying about guys who didn't buy in to the future here.
GENE: A healthy and dialed-in Tamorrion Terry could have made a difference. There has been a lot of attention given to FSU’s shortcomings at quarterback and offensive line, but a major limiting factor on offense has been a substandard wide receiver corps. Terry is a legitimate deep threat that defenses would have to account for. His mere presence would have opened things up for the entire offense. Without a viable deep threat, defenses have been able to line up closer to the line of scrimmage and stay in tight coverage on FSU’s struggling wide receivers.
Q: FSU has taken a beating in the public eye over the last couple of weeks, even though much of the criticism about the cancellations seems unwarranted. What do you think the school’s administration could have done to help change the narrative? Or is this one where they just had to wear it?
COREY: Kirk Herbstreit suggested that Michigan was waving a white flag and would probably use COVID as an excuse to not play Ohio State. The response from the Wolverines' athletics director was a furious one. He publicly went after Herbstreit a few hours later, said how insulting and ridiculous it was. He stuck up for his program and his institution. Compare that with Florida State's response to Dabo: Which was, you know, nothing. Not a peep. Certainly not a counter-attack, like the one the Michigan A.D. levied at Herbstreit. And that was just a former player/current broadcaster running his mouth, not the actual head coach of another institution.
So, that lack of response by someone other than Norvell (who was in an impossible position there) bothered me, and I felt like the administration could have gotten out in front of the Dabo narrative. Other than that though, I don't think the administration did anything wrong. Maybe it could have issued a release earlier in the week about the UVA game, saying there was a chance COVID could impact the contest (Virginia knew there was a chance when it got on its plane), just so it didn't seem to come out of nowhere again on Saturday morning.
GENE: Nothing positive ever comes from getting involved in a public spat. So, in the case of the Clemson debacle, John Thrasher or David Coburn firing back at Dabo might have made a bad situation worse. And letting Dabo twist in the wind for his ignorant comments was probably the best way to go.
At the same time, I think the administration has failed all long by not communicating better on this topic. I get that there are privacy concerns, but that hasn’t hindered other programs from keeping the media up to date on COVID-19 matters. Heck, I get weekly press releases from other schools that provide detailed information on testing numbers and procedures. A lot of the misinformation and confusion surrounding the canceled games could have been mitigated had FSU been more proactive about keeping people in the loop on what was happening behind the curtain.
ASLAN: Well, credit for learning as they go. They did get more involved in explaining the Virginia postponement, and I don’t think anyone would have expected Dabo Swinney to go scorched earth the way he did. At the same time, the steel curtain they’re keeping around the Moore Center on this issue isn’t helping, and neither is Mike Norvell’s apparent disdain for discussing injuries.
I think it was a mistake in the UVA press release to just ambiguously state, "we’re down to 44 scholarship players" — especially when an SEC school (Mississippi State) appeared to walk into inevitable doom (at Georgia) and improbably hung tough (31-24 loss). If the statement outlined, “Hey, we only had two healthy defensive backs or four healthy offensive lineman," I think you'd get more understanding. But they’re choosing to limit information, and when people don’t have a full picture, you run the risk of riling people up.
IRA: That's not exactly true, A-Train. Everybody seems to fixate on the 44 number, but the statement also went on to mention, "some position groups depleted almost entirely." That was the real deal-breaker for that game. And I support that decision. It wouldn't be fair to ask college football players to put themselves in unfair -- or perhaps even unsafe -- situations by having to play positions in a game that they haven't practiced. The bigger issue was the ACC's ill-advised policy requiring Friday COVID testing, which often forced teams to travel without knowing if a game could be played.
I do think FSU should have been more vocal about its position after Dabo tried to napalm the school not once, not twice, but three times. I thought Mike Norvell handled his initial press conference very well, but at some point it would have been good for the administration to say something along the lines of, "Hey buddy, look. I know you're upset. We're upset too. We lost a couple million dollars, and our kids really wanted to play you. But we're just not going to let your actions put them in harm's way."
I'm not sure it would have fixed everything, but at least you could tell your constituents that you tried. I get that the school wanted to take the high road, but unfortunately, I think a lot of FSU supporters (and others) are perceiving the silence as weakness. I do think they handled the Virginia situation fairly well, although maybe the statement about contact tracing could have come out a little quicker.
Q: Adam Fuller has taken a lot of heat for FSU's underachieving defense. How much weight, if any, will the final two games have on his future at Florida State?
IRA: If you have the right head coach, he is evaluating his assistant coaches every day at practices, in meetings and in games. His hiring and firing decisions shouldn't be made based on one or two Saturdays of the year. So from that standpoint, Norvell should already know whether he has to make a change or if Fuller can get the job done.
As I've said all along, Norvell brought Fuller here because he thought he could do the job. While he likely wasn't the first choice, there are hundreds of other defensive coaches Norvell could have hired if he wasn't confident in Fuller after their one year together at Memphis. He has to believe the guy knows what he's doing. So the only real issue could be whether Fuller can get the most out of the players on this roster, and if that's a concern, then maybe he does need to make a change. We'll have to see how that plays out.
I wouldn't criticize Norvell if he stuck with Fuller for another year no matter how things go these last two games. At some point, these players need some consistency in terms of coaching. Bouncing around from coordinator to coordinator isn't good for anybody. At the same time, if the defense struggles again in 2021, then that would come back on Norvell for not making a change.
GENE: If you compare Florida State’s 2020 football season to a class, the defense has a failing grade. Continuing that class narrative, the final two games can be looked at as a final exam for Adam Fuller. That exam shouldn’t be overly daunting since neither Duke nor Wake Forest are offensive juggernauts, but they aren’t pushovers either.
The primary goal for the 2020 football season was for this team to show improvement. That goal has been somewhat accomplished on offense, especially when you factor in injuries, but it’s not even close on defense. If Duke and Wake Forest average around 40 points and 500 yards on offense -- what the averages have been vs. ACC opponents -- then a strong case can be made that there has been no improvement on defense.
If that’s how these final two games play out, then Norvell may have to make a change. It would be difficult to remain status quo on defense given how the unit completely failed without improvement throughout the season. Even if Norvell still has confidence in Fuller, he may have to make a change because players, potential transfers and recruits probably won’t -- and that also matters.
ASLAN: You’ve had a month to get as healthy as you’ll ever be playing a game in November, and enough outside noise to motivate and get the very best effort out of your kids. If you cannot find a way to limit and turn over Duke (ranked 124th out of 127 teams in turnover margin), what are we doing? This is a matter of kids believing in you and your message resonating.
I don’t know how breaking for two months and then returning with largely the same mentally battered kids for "Tour of Duty" drills and spring ball -- led by the same coordinator -- is going to result in any meaningful improvement. When you look at this defensive staff, Adam Fuller has none of his “guys” -- assistants who have worked under him in the past. So that might lead to a learning curve, but there isn't any time to waste when your unit performs this poorly.
COREY: I'm assuming if Mike Norvell has any plans of making a change at defensive coordinator, there is almost nothing over these last two games that could change his mind. Because, I mean, the ship that is the 2020 FSU defense has already set sail and slammed into the iceberg. Holding Duke or Wake Forest to like 24 points or something isn't going to be some sort of lifeboat for Fuller. The story of this team's defense has been written.
And truthfully, it's almost impossible to judge this defense now, in December, with so many of his best players no longer a part of the team. If somehow Fuller can get this depleted roster to pitch a couple of shutouts? Well, then that could be a difference-maker. Sure. But alas, I think if Norvell is going to make a change, it would be because of what he saw in September and October, not what he saw in December.
Q: Which player or players that we haven't seen much of this season are you looking forward to seeing over these final two games?
GENE: With La'Damian Webb opting out, at least for the rest of the season, the door is wide open for Lawrance Toafili. We have seen flashes of brilliance from the freshman running back, but his playing time has been limited being behind Webb and Corbin. He’s now fully healthy and should see significantly more carries. Depending on what happens with Webb, Toafili could become the Seminoles’ primary ball-carrier in 2021. It will be interesting to get a preview of what he can bring to the table if given close to a full workload.
On defense, I’m excited to see what safeties Hamsah Nasirildeen and Travis Jay can do together. The defensive backfield has been a dumpster fire, and inept play at safety has been a big part of that failure. After sitting out the first seven games, Nasirildeen returned for the N.C. State game but played just 24 total snaps. All indications are that he will see more of a full-time role the rest of the way. Jay, a redshirt freshman, has been in and out of the lineup battling injuries while trying to learn the position. If fully healthy, the duo should bring elite athleticism and playmaking ability to a position in desperate need.
ASLAN: Does Jordan Travis count? Feels like years since we’ve seen him. I’m curious to see if Warren Thompson will be presented with a greater role in the offense now that it’s apparent he’s all they have in terms of a physically imposing target. Sidney Williams seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and if he can flash and make some plays it would be another good sign that Norvell's staff knows how to identify and develop talent.
COREY: Lawrence Toafili. That's my one. With Webb opting out, he should get a lot more touches in the final two games. I think he has a chance to be a dynamic talent, and hopefully he's now 100 percent healthy and ready to show Florida State fans what kind of talent he truly possesses. Maybe Corey Wren, too? Or Bryan Robinson? FSU needs some receivers to develop. With the quickness. And maybe an underclassman can have a big game or two, or at least a big play or two, and show a glimpse of what he could offer in 2021.
IRA: Toafili and the young receivers. If Kentron Poitier, Bryan Robinson and Darion Williamson can show something positive in these last couple of games, it would do wonders for confidence in this offense entering 2021. I don't think there's any doubt that Toafili is a big-time talent, the question is whether he can carry a heavy load and continue playing at a high level. He hasn't had a chance to do that yet.
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Talk about this story with other Florida State football fans in the Tribal Council